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Feeding Raw/Cooked Mince/Meat???
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helenhowes



Joined: 02 Nov 2010
Posts: 57
Location: Near Reading, Berkshire

PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2013 3:44 pm    Post subject: Feeding Raw/Cooked Mince/Meat??? Reply with quote

I have been thinking of ditching the dry food and replacing it with raw/cooked mince/meat but would appreciate any helpful advice in doing so....? Although our dogs are happy with Chudley's Original dry food mix I'm concerned about future urinary issues (for Charlie our Dally especially)!

If anyone out there feeds their Dally with raw/cooked mince meat or any other kind, I'd love to hear from you??

Thank you.

Confused [/i]
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fred22



Joined: 12 Mar 2008
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Location: Somewhere near Stockport

PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2013 12:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Helen. I've been conversing with Spotalot lately about this so if I pass on some of what I sent to her that should be useful.

There are two primary groups in raw feeding (with many variations thereof).

Camp 1. Everything a dog needs is contained in the prey, so if you are feeding correct quantities of skin, muscle, bone organs and offal then you need add nothing more. Major schools are Tom Lonsdale's RMB, prey-model feeders. Google these, and also see http://www.rawlearning.com/rawfaq.html or http://rawfed.com/myths/feedraw.html

Camp 2. Feed raw meat and bones but also add supplementary pulped fruit/veg, fish oil, greens, cottage cheese, eggs, poss vitamins etc. This is the Ian Billinghurst BARF camp and variations.

Most of us normal folk are somewhere in the middle.

For folk new to raw feeding I usually recommend Natural Instinct if you can afford them. You may have a local stockist, have a look here http://www.naturalinstinct.com/categories/All-Dog-Food/. They sell minced raw food most of which has some fruit and veg in. Its all neatly packaged and superb quality and makes life very convenient. It comes in tubs like litre ice cream tubs, if you get yourself some of this, probably the chicken at first and maybe some chicken wings from the butcher then you are good to go. You can see if your dog likes it: I've never known a dog not to but I know Cassie didnt take to it so it does happen.

After a week or two you can introduce one more variety into the diet, then shortly after add another and so on. In my experience dogs take to the new diet with no problems whatsoever although maybe I have been lucky. I've certainly not had any problems introducing this to five dogs now.

You effectively monitor and adjust on an ongoing basis what you put in (ratio of bone to meat to offal, veg, etc) by what comes out the back end.

Going forwards if you do get in the swing of it you probably would want to get your supplies from one of the bulk suppliers such as DAF, Manifold Valley Meats, and all the others. This requires you to have a dedicated freezer as you would be buying in bulk, 20lbs of this and 20lbs of that. Like Flygirl I now have two dog freezers Embarassed although they're not always both in use.

Positive benefits to feeding raw are better overall condition, muscley and sleek, thick soft coat, cleaner teeth, fresher breath, reduced quantity of poop but firmer and happy more natural doggie.

In the last few days I have fed: duck wings, turkey necks, chicken carcasses, oxtail, minced turkey, minced tripe, minced beef, minced pork, some minced veg/fruit, some cottage cheese. At other times I have fed meat only, i.e. not fruit or veg and not really noticed much difference if any. When we have a foster dog we feed one meal of kibble (as we got in trouble for feeding a foster dog raw)

The Pet Forum has some useful threads about raw feeding, have a look at the three mentioned here as stickies http://www.petforums.co.uk/dog-health-nutrition/306963-switching-raw.html That forum has a much wider audience than our specialist one so there is more input and discussion going on.

Hope this helps but fire away with any questions you may have.
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helenhowes



Joined: 02 Nov 2010
Posts: 57
Location: Near Reading, Berkshire

PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2013 12:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I will take a look at the links that you have noted. I'm thinking of starting with the chicken tripe mix mince (is prize choice any good?) and understand that beef has a high purine content so not to have too much. However, with regards to giving them (chicken) carcasses, do you chop it up into small pieces?

I also have a lurcher of which I will change her too, and if I remember correctly you also have one (sorry if that's wrong!), so just wondered how they got on with this diet too?

Sounds like a second freezer is in need in deed.... Rolling Eyes

Thank very much for the info Smile
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fred22



Joined: 12 Mar 2008
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Location: Somewhere near Stockport

PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2013 3:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I haven't fed much prize choice apart from chunks of tripe from pets at home. You need to have an idea of bone content, do you know what that is for this mix?

A carcass does not need cutting, that's why the Good Lord gave them teeth. Its probably close to perfect, right size so needs chewing, can't be swallowed whole, not too hard. A local butcher may be able to supply? They can also be ordered in bulk.

We don't have a lurcher atm. We had one that went tragically wrong and have had two subsequent fosters. Lurchers take to it really well.

I don't worry too much about purines, I feed a varied diet.
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fred22



Joined: 12 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2013 3:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm on the bus at the mo so sorry about the short reply
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helenhowes



Joined: 02 Nov 2010
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Location: Near Reading, Berkshire

PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2013 7:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi

Hope you the bus ride was ok Rolling Eyes

http://www.prizechoice.co.uk/products/wholemeatchunks/beef-chunks.php
here's the link for you to take a look at and see what you think??

I did speak to our vet about it and he thought it would be ok, always highlighting risks of course.

Thanks for your info it's been very interesting reading about it all!
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helenhowes



Joined: 02 Nov 2010
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Location: Near Reading, Berkshire

PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2013 8:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also found this link:

http://naturesmenu.co.uk/category-raw-meals.aspx

Question Laughing
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spottydogs3



Joined: 29 Aug 2004
Posts: 525
Location: Crawley, West Sussex

PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2013 8:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I feed the Natural Instinct chicken and tripe, turkey or chicken. The dogs are doing very well on it although it isn't the cheapest. If you buy the working dogs range there isn't any VAT on it so it makes it a bit cheaper.

Heather
Louis, Sophie and resident non-spotty Pickles
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helenhowes



Joined: 02 Nov 2010
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Location: Near Reading, Berkshire

PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2013 10:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Heather.... it does look very good. So how much of a tub do you feed then Question Question
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spottydogs3



Joined: 29 Aug 2004
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PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2013 11:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I feed them about a third of a tub each. They also have meals of Burns dried food still and sometimes I give them mincemeat with veggies. They are all doing well on it. They say how much you should feed on their website but I always go on how my dogs look rather than an amount but it is a starting point. I'm afraid they don't have bones as Sophie only goes and buries hers and then tries to take Louis. There teeth are much better now and Sophie doesn't lick her feet so much either so it must be doing some good!

Heather
Louis, Sophie and resident non-spotty Pickles
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helenhowes



Joined: 02 Nov 2010
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Location: Near Reading, Berkshire

PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2013 12:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

yeah it says 2-3% of their weight so will have to work that out. Good to hear about their teeth as the vet was saying that Charlies back teeth could do with a clean Exclamation Exclamation and I'm not happy about the fact he'll have to go 'under' Crying or Very sad


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Spotalot



Joined: 12 Sep 2010
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PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2013 4:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Daisy has been on raw about 6 weeks now.....never thought I would do as I'm vegetarian, but she was having anal gland problems and people on here said try raw.
She is having quarter of a tub of natural instinct morning and night and a couple of chicken wings about 200g lunchtime, so overall about 700g meat and bone.
She was 25kg and went down slightly at the last weigh in, and is now about 24kg.
She's doing really well, anal glands all ok, skin and coat lovely soft silky and shiny and she seems more muscular.
If her motions get very small and crumbly I give her a kibble meal.
She also has natural live yoghurt, cottage cheese or raw eggs on rotation.
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helenhowes



Joined: 02 Nov 2010
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Location: Near Reading, Berkshire

PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2013 6:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Carol

Good to hear from you, thanks. You make it sound easy which is a relief as I have been worrying about quantities etc. Although Charlie & Milly are (touch wood Exclamation) fine at the moment, the more I read about raw and it's benefits it's very tempting to swap them.

So is it cheaper or about the same as buying dry food?? How much a month do you think it's costing you, if you don't mind me asking?? Embarassed
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Spotalot



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PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2013 6:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

helenhowes wrote:
Hi Carol

Good to hear from you, thanks. You make it sound easy which is a relief as I have been worrying about quantities etc. Although Charlie & Milly are (touch wood Exclamation) fine at the moment, the more I read about raw and it's benefits it's very tempting to swap them.

So is it cheaper or about the same as buying dry food?? How much a month do you think it's costing you, if you don't mind me asking?? Embarassed


No Helen I dont mind at all.
I am doing it the lazy way at the moment, but natural instinct is around 3 a kg that lasts 2 days so 1.50 a day plus chicken wings are about 20p each so around 1.90 a day, but as I say I've only just started so people that have been doing it a lot longer find cheaper sources.
Dalmatian 22 kibble worked out at 1 a day so nearly double.
I only have 1 dog at the moment so its not so bad.
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Last edited by Spotalot on Wed May 29, 2013 8:42 pm; edited 1 time in total
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fred22



Joined: 12 Mar 2008
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Location: Somewhere near Stockport

PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2013 8:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You wont get economies until you can buy in bulk I'm afraid Helen. I've never worked out the cost but if you were able to buy from say DAF (here) then a box of 20 x 454g mince seems to be between 10 - 12. Assume 12 then thats 60p for 454g. Also assume you are feeding at something like the rate spotalot does then thats about a bag and a half a day of mince (681g) = 90p. Then you need to add in your wings or carcass, say 40p = 1.30. Then any optional extras you may wish such as cottage cheese, fruit & veg, apple cider vinegar, salmon oil...

Having done the above calculation I have to say that my George (27kg) has ~400g mince and a carcass per day and poor old Millie who puts on weight just looking at food gets about 300g mince per day and bones. So for us the mince and bone only cost is just under 1 for George and 85p for Mill.

Finally I don't think feeding raw is a cheaper option and I never tout it as such -though some others have managed miracles by bulk buying and haggling -but on the plus side you do have more control over what you are feeding and DAF for example use stuff from sources that are fit for human consumption. Hope that price doesnt put you off, but it is a consideration and I understand that you can only do what you can do financially.
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