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Just out of curiosity
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angieb



Joined: 27 Jan 2007
Posts: 211
Location: Leicestershire

PostPosted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 10:20 pm    Post subject: Just out of curiosity Reply with quote

I having been browsing the internet and my fav pastime is looking at dal pups for sale. I just love their cute pictures.

However, I have come across someone in our local area who does not believe in having any of their puppies hearing tested as they are aware that as they bark and behave 'normally' they all have hearing.

The breeder that I had Blade from who is an experienced breeder thought that also, only to find that one pup was unilateral and therefore could not be bred from.

Uni's therefore must be hard to detect without the BAER testing. I would consider therefore that the breeder selling these puppies is irresponsible and that the deafness gene could be passed on via this way which as I understood, was trying to be bred 'out' of the breed.

Does this mean that this particular breeder can register her puppies and allow them to be bred from therefore possibly passing the gene on?

The breeder is charging 550.00 without a hearing test being done! Thats the same as I paid for Poppy with full hearing test.
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paultennent



Joined: 01 Aug 2008
Posts: 148
Location: Nottingham

PostPosted: Mon Oct 13, 2008 12:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Loki's unilateral, but my breeder had him tested.

Basically I had to sign a contract saying I'd have him neutered within a year and wouldn't intentionally breed him.

A little nicer than just putting him down.

That said, he wasn't any cheaper for being both uni and patched...
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Jeangenie



Joined: 01 Apr 2004
Posts: 2395
Location: Denial

PostPosted: Mon Oct 13, 2008 7:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Unilaterals make perfectly fine pets - and there are circumstances when breeding from them woulddn't be out of the question either. A quality animal could safely be mated to a fully-hearing dog, especially one from a long line of fully-hearing dogs, with little fear of producing totally deaf puppies.

Not testing, however, is foolish. Unilaterals are well-nigh impossible to detect any other way (even totally deaf puppies can be hard to pick out in a litter), and, if not tested, the risk of mating unilateral to unilateral is high - and that's where the increased risk of total deafness lies.
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leavenheath



Joined: 16 Jan 2008
Posts: 380
Location: suffolk

PostPosted: Mon Oct 13, 2008 9:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The first puppy we bought was a little patched girl, the owner said she had her hearing checked by the vet, found out afterwards this just meant the vet made a noise behind each puppy. When we got her home I realised within 24 hours she was completely deaf, as my daughter Kim was only 6 then and is special needs I felt I just couldn't take the chance with her and returned her to the breeder with much upset to the whole family at the time. I still feel I let that little puppy down, and wonder what happened to her. Sad
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gillieworm



Joined: 03 Aug 2007
Posts: 1894
Location: Derby

PostPosted: Mon Oct 13, 2008 11:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Piper is patched and her registration has been endorsed so that any puppies she may have cannot be registered. I have also signed a contract that I will not breed from her and that I understand that the endorsement will never be lifted by the breeder.

I would assume this is the same for uni or fully deaf pups.

We didn't pay less either
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angieb



Joined: 27 Jan 2007
Posts: 211
Location: Leicestershire

PostPosted: Mon Oct 13, 2008 12:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thats so sad Leavenheath.

If Blade had been the one who was uni, I would still have had him as I was not planning to breed anyway. Our breeder also has a block on breeding without first asking their permission. I'll just ring up if we decide to have Blade as a stud but thats not on the cards at the moment anyway.
Infact its more possible that he will be 'done' as I didn't have either dog to show or breed from really. I just want them to be pets.

But if its not known if a puppy is deaf because the breeder won't have the BAER done, can the puppies still be registered? I would presume they can but there would be an endorsement like with Gill's Pipers patching? Or can they not be registered at all?
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Maggi



Joined: 15 Apr 2004
Posts: 3161
Location: Derbyshire

PostPosted: Mon Oct 13, 2008 12:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Currently there is no requirement for puppies to be BAER tested. Anyone who says they can tell a unilateral without this is lying! The main reason people do not do it is cost, or in some cases distance as there are not so many testing centres and it is not always easy to take a large litter a long distance to test.

In the past we had absolutely no idea if our dogs were fully hearing or unilateral (and if I'm honest I have to say I don't care much!) I would, however, like to know as informed decisions re breeding etc can then be made and I personally would like to see testing be a requirement for registration.

It is the breeder, not the Kennel Club, who decides whether or not to place endorsements on their puppies. I have always put a no-breeding endorsement on EVERY puppy I have bred and only lifted it when the dog was old enough to breed from and if the dog was a good specimen. However that is my choice and not one that everybody would want to make.

The only sensible advice I can offer is that if you chose to take a puppy that it not tested then be sure in your own mind that it is not completely deaf, and expect to pay LESS money for it as BAER testing costs. Have the puppy tested yourself before making any decisions as to whether to breed from it.

If you wish to breed you must try to understand a little about genetics and become as informed as possible on the problems of the breed. BAER testing may help to reduce the incidence of deafness but will not eliminate it as the problem is colour linked. In my personal experience there has not been a big drop in the number of deaf puppies born and we have no idea about unis as until about 15 years ago there was no way of telling if a dog was uni. This however does not mean we should not care and we should keep trying to learn more and eradicate as many health problems as we can.

Dalmatians who are patched/unilateral/lemon/orange/blue eyed/too spotty/not spotty enough are all equally lovely as pets and, whatever their faults, they are No 1 in the eyes of their owners! A dog is more than a pedigree or a collection of show points, a kind loveable temperament is the most important thing of all. If a dog does not have a good temeperament he is not a good dalmatian however fine looking he may be and however well he can hear!!
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gillieworm



Joined: 03 Aug 2007
Posts: 1894
Location: Derby

PostPosted: Mon Oct 13, 2008 12:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maggi wrote:
Dalmatians who are patched/unilateral/lemon/orange/blue eyed/too spotty/not spotty enough are all equally lovely as pets and, whatever their faults, they are No 1 in the eyes of their owners! A dog is more than a pedigree or a collection of show points, a kind loveable temperament is the most important thing of all. If a dog does not have a good temeperament he is not a good dalmatian however fine looking he may be and however well he can hear!!


Here here Magi, well said!! Very Happy

Neither of mine are "show" standard, but to me they are the most beautiful dals on the planet.

Having said that, I do find that it is other dallie owners I have come across that get all snobby about mine not meeting the breed standard, whereas clueless non-dallie owners are the ones that think they are gorgeous too....... Not getting at anyone on here Embarassed , but thats just what I have found, out and about over the past 18 months since getting Logan
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angieb



Joined: 27 Jan 2007
Posts: 211
Location: Leicestershire

PostPosted: Mon Oct 13, 2008 2:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes you are right Maggi.

I did my homework before committing to a dally so I knew about hearing tests etc. I was a nervous wreck waiting for Poppy to have hers as she would have been put to sleep if she was deaf. Although I do not agree with this, I would not have been able to have a deaf dog with having children under 10 and a business to run. And I have nothing but praise for those who do take these dogs on and can give them the commitment and love they deserve. Lets face it, in both humans and animals, illness and age can affect hearing. With Blade I wasn't such a wreck although I did have one or two sleepness nights!

Both mine are full hearing though sometimes thats hard to believe (selective hearing same as hubby and kids Rolling Eyes ).

Anyway, my questions are answered and curiosity solved.

And Gillieworm, I think your dals are beautiful Laughing Mine are too Laughing
All dals are beautiful, deaf or not, patched or not. Beautiful creatures Laughing Dally mad of course Laughing
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dogtired



Joined: 26 Oct 2005
Posts: 684
Location: Berkshire

PostPosted: Wed Oct 15, 2008 9:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Having said that, I do find that it is other dallie owners I have come across that get all snobby about mine not meeting the breed standard


I have found similar quite often with my rescues, not just the dallies. Some people think I am just a cheapskate and won't pay full price and yet others think a rescue pedigree/pure breed is somehow more acceptable than one which may have been bred for profit . (profit in responsible breeding, is there any??)
When I first got my GSP, before the change in the law, I got some "odd" comments from other GSP owners about his beautiful long waggy tail Rolling Eyes

Aren't people funny Question Confused
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Sue Parkin-Russell



Joined: 26 Apr 2004
Posts: 185

PostPosted: Thu Oct 16, 2008 10:08 am    Post subject: Hearing Stats Reply with quote

Hi! If you go onto the Health forum under the Hearing Testing venues I have put all the stats that we currently have of BEAR hearing testing results and registrations.

Might make interesting reading for you!

Best Regards,
Sue.
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Alphadal



Joined: 03 Mar 2008
Posts: 432
Location: Merseyside

PostPosted: Thu Oct 16, 2008 12:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi, I recently read somewhere (sorry can't remember where) But it was an American man I think. Who was researching deafness in dalmatians and said that patched puppies are usually never deaf! Not sure on the validity of this but research report was very interesting. Anyone else heard of this?
Paula
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gillieworm



Joined: 03 Aug 2007
Posts: 1894
Location: Derby

PostPosted: Thu Oct 16, 2008 12:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have heard that patched puppies is a good indicator of having a full hearing litter, although I don't know if this is an old wives tale or something bourne from facts?
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Gill with my beautiful boy Logan & gorgeous girl Piper xxx
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Alphadal



Joined: 03 Mar 2008
Posts: 432
Location: Merseyside

PostPosted: Thu Oct 16, 2008 12:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,
Just remembered where I read it, it was on Dalmatian Telegraph website.
Researcher was George M Strain. He says that although patched puppies could be deaf, it was unusual.
Very interesting.
Paula
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Jeangenie



Joined: 01 Apr 2004
Posts: 2395
Location: Denial

PostPosted: Thu Oct 16, 2008 7:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gillieworm wrote:
I have heard that patched puppies is a good indicator of having a full hearing litter, although I don't know if this is an old wives tale or something bourne from facts?

I had a patched puppy in one litter, and one of his siblings was unilateral.
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